Von: Arm The Spirit <ats@locust.etext.org
Datum: Montag, 4. September 2000 09:09
Betreff: Interview With The FARC-EP: "We Are In A War"

"We Are In A War"

The FARC-EP And The Laws Of War

(In the following interview, translated from "So Oder So", the magazine of the German solidarity organization 'Libertad!', Colombian guerrilla commanders Ivan Rios and Simon Trinidad respond to accusations that the FARC-EP have violated human rights and the laws of war.)

Question: In the summer of 1999, the Colombian government suggested the creation of an International Truth Commission. But the FARC, in strong words, rejected the proposal. Why?

Ivan Rios: The aim of that commission was to control the demilitarized zone and to verify the agreements that were made at the negotiating table. But from our point of view, this is an internal conflict which concerns the Colombian society, a conflict which we Colombians must resolve. We feared that the members of this international commission would not be impartial, that they would exclusively monitor the conduct of the FARC only.

Question: In other peace processes, like in Guatemala or South Africa, truth commissions documented violations of the laws of war and - although in just a few limited cases - charged the perpetrators of these crimes. Just like in Colombia, there were massacres in these countries carried out with impunity by paramilitaries. Would the FARC reject a commission which had a mandate and a competence to prosecute all cases of war crimes in the Colombian civil war?

Simon Trinidad: We aren't opposed to investigations by international organizations. NGOs and personalities who investigate the massacres, murders, and disappearances are welcome in our country, in order to see the reality here with their own eyes. Amnesty International, for example, investigated a massacre in the Norte de Santander province
about two months ago. The two delegates from the organization told us that it was certain that members of the police and the armed forces had participated in that massacre. Such investigative work is very useful.

Question: The background for the demand for monitoring comes from allegations that the FARC has committed human rights abuses in the demilitarized zones. The international press has reported extensively on allegations that the FARC has kidnapped and killed people suspected of collaborating with the state. Does the rejection of a truth commission mean that the FARC has something to hide?

Simon Trinidad: People should not forget the fact that we are in a war here. Even in the demilitarized zones. The fact that the army and police have pulled out certainly does not mean that they don't still try to infiltrate those areas. When we discover secret service agents, we arrest them. They are violating the agreement concerning the demilitarized zones. Their aim in infiltrating is to prepare military attacks on the zones, to murder FARC guerrillas and commanders, and to sabotage the work of our organization. But this fact is never mentioned. Even the agents' own families are often
unaware of the reality of their work on behalf of the secret service.
So of course the families become upset when we arrest these people. But the tasks of these agents is apparently not made public, rather they are clandestine acts of war.

Question: What happens after an alleged agent is detained?

Ivan Rios: All of our decisions are based on investigations. Then we analyze the danger of the individual in question. Have they committed crimes in other parts of the country, or have they been manipulated by the state? In the case of children - children are often manipulated for such tasks here - they are handed over. We strongly criticize such manipulation of children. We criticize the use of secret agents in general, because it is a violation of the arrangements made by the President, who is also the commander of the armed forces.

Question: So you arrest agents and hold them as prisoners of war?

Simon Trinidad: Or we shoot them. We are in a war. In regions where the fighting is out in the open, the situation of confrontation is recognized. In the demilitarized zones, the conflict is not so obvious, but it's there.

Question: The social violence in San Vincente, as in other regions of Colombia, is very massive. Since the FARC has assumed control there, the number of murders and attacks has declined substantially. How did you deal with these social problems?

Simon Trinidad: In the past, there was a police station here. The police, as is the case all over the country, have alliances with the thieves and murderers, and sometimes the criminals are the police themselves. Now the people have to deal with the FARC. Because we have nothing to do with such anti-social crimes, the people respect us. We are a moral authority. So of course there are fewer robberies, because the thieves know they will be in trouble if they are caught.

Question: What concretely do you do to combat robberies and murders?

Ivan Rios: The accused person is put on trial in front of the community. Here's one example: In San Vincente, there were places where the drug 'bazooco' was being sold secretly. This drug is a waste product of cocaine production, and it's much more deadly than cocaine itself because it contains chemical substances from the production process. It's the drug of the poor. When we find out about the places where this drug is being peddled, we call the community together and, in front of everyone, we give the drug dealers a choice, to stop selling the drug or to leave the community.
There have also been violent confrontations due to drunkenness. One time, two friends got drunk and had a horse race. But then they got into an argument. One went home and got a gun and killed the other man. We put him on trial. His community, La Sombra, decided on his punishment.

Question: How do you evaluate these experiences of popular justice?

Simon Trinidad: Of course, not everything goes the way everyone would like. Personal interests and points of view play a role in that. But we are trying to be as just as possible, to help make the communities able to resolve their own differences, so that we no longer have to dictate a solution. We have been making experiences, not just in the
demilitarized zones. In the regions where we have some degree of territorial control, we have had such a situation for several years now.

Question: In how many areas is the FARC in judicial control?

Simon Trinidad: There are 140 provinces without police or military forces. The FARC is present on 70 fronts all across Colombia. In many rural regions there are no state institutions whatsoever, not even the Catholic Church - no priests, no judges, not to mention a lawyer. Sometimes a mayor or a policeman visits us. Businessmen who seek to do business in the rural regions ask us for permission. Workers turn to us when they have problems with their employers. This is because the state institutions either fail to address their problems, or they always stand on the side of the bosses. Many Colombians have no faith in the state institutions. They come to us instead.

(Source: "So Oder So" #2 - Summer 2000; Translated by Arm The Spirit)

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